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why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

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  • why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

    i have a couple questions about how and why the dosage per day was chosen as it is now.

    why is dose significantly more the on initial use or the day after a big water change?
    its dosing 5 times the amount(cap per 10 gallons vs cap per 50 gallons) of regular use.


    since excel is only available for 24 hours, why cant i continue that cap per 10 gallons every day?

    if i have no fish in the tank, can i safely improve my results by increasing the dosage per day(with in reason)?

  • #2
    Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

    Thanks for the post. The reason for this is because initially you are most likely starting out with very little carbon in your water and so the larger dose is to be able to get that level up and then to be able to maintain it after water changes. Flourish excel has reducing properties so you would not want to continually overdose the product, as it has the potential to reduce the oxygen in the aquarium. This is why we have instructed to dose this product in this manner and have found that it gives the best result when used as instructed. Even with no fish in your tank, I would recommend sticking to the instructions on the label and you should still see great results. Have a great weekend!

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    • #3
      Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

      Also wanted to mention that this was discussed on Aquatic Plant Central not too long ago. Here is what our response was there:

      "The statement that Flourish Excel is only available for 24 hours is a valid statement, but is dependent upon quite a few factors (ie: organic waste present, plant load, etc.). In testing this product in "moderately" planted aquariums, we found that the 5mL of Excel per 50 gallons was enough to supply the plants with carbon for 24 hours. The Flourish Excel also can interact with organics in the system and be broken down. So, the more fish you have (ie: organics), the less Excel that you will have available to the plants. Lets take, for instance, someone who has only a few fish, relatively clean water, and very few plants. It is completely safe for them to use the recommended dose of Flourish Excel (5mL/50 gal), but they may see some buildup of Excel over time. The buildup is not a negative aspect, it means that we are likely maintaining a good amount of carbon in the system. Well, if we perform a >40% water change on the system, we will remove any of the leftover Excel that was in the system. We therefore know that at this point it is completely safe to add the 5mL/10gallons. Many people with heavily planted tanks are able to dose the larger amount on a normal basis, but we cannot recommend this since there are other unknown factors involved with the possibility of buildup. I hope this answers your questions in regard to that."

      The thread is on our Seachem forum there titled "Excel Overdose on Change Day" if you would like to take a peek/

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      • #4
        Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

        can you define "moderately planted"?

        so in this low fish and low plant tank, lets assume this is water changeless system that uses anerobic bacteria, if it continously builds up over time, wont it eventually become dangerous?

        is there anyway to test the amount of excel in the system? it doesnt have to be a consumer test kit, just a chemical i can order and perform titration(although i guess thats how test kits work too.)



        also i tried to find the thread i couldn't locate it with the search feature.

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        • #5
          Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

          In a tank that never gets water changes performed, there will be an excess of organics, no matter what the fish/plant load. This organic load will serve to break down the Excel, and it will therefore not build up. Unfortunately, there is no way to test the amount of Excel (an organic carbon source) in a system, but following the instructions will yield the best results. Here is the link to this discussion on Aquatic Plant Central: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/59753-excel-overdose-change-day.html.

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          • #6
            Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

            Originally posted by Tech Support EH View Post
            In a tank that never gets water changes performed, there will be an excess of organics, no matter what the fish/plant load. This organic load will serve to break down the Excel, and it will therefore not build up. Unfortunately, there is no way to test the amount of Excel (an organic carbon source) in a system, but following the instructions will yield the best results. Here is the link to this discussion on Aquatic Plant Central: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/59753-excel-overdose-change-day.html.
            forgive me for my ignorance, but how did you detect excel was used up in a 24 hour period in testing?

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            • #7
              Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

              We tested using lab methods. There are ways to test for the components of Flourish Excel in a laboratory setting, however, there are no consumer-grade test kits.

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              • #8
                Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                Originally posted by Tech Support LK View Post
                We tested using lab methods. There are ways to test for the components of Flourish Excel in a laboratory setting, however, there are no consumer-grade test kits.
                what are those methods?

                i do have access to a college chemistry and biology labs, im sure the TA would indulge me provided the equipment is available.

                also how did you define moderately planted?

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                • #9
                  Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                  since i believe i heard the molecule Polycycloglutaracetal(ingredient in excel if im right) is a form of gluteraldehyde, can i simply test for gluteraldehyde?

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                  • #10
                    Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                    Interestingly I always wondered if gluteraldehyde could be tested in a solution, but I don't have the right reagents to test it and I don't have access to a college lab, yet. =)

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                    • #11
                      Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                      Unfortunately, testing for Gluteraldehyde will not suffice and giving you our testing methods would be giving proprietary information. As for a moderately planted tank, I can not give you exact numbers of plants that were in the tank, however, moderately planted generally means approximately 50-75% of the substrate is covered.

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                      • #12
                        Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                        how come seachem is so secret about excel? i thought the company patented the chemical? or is the patent not sufficent to protect you product overseas?

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                        • #13
                          Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                          i have one more question in addition to the last one.
                          Why cant you tell us how excel kills algae exactly? i know you said its because the government wont let you or that is not marketed as a algaecide but surely by telling use its possible method of action it wont be implying the product is for algaecidel purposes(i believe i got those reasons from threads so correct me if im wrong).
                          Clearly you already acknowledge that property based on the FAQ, how is telling us how it happens breaking the law?
                          its similar to a antifreeze maker telling me it causes kidney failure if ingested, that doesnt imply a recommendation to use it as a poison.

                          i have never been part of a company or marketed a product, so answering these questions would help satisfy some curiosity of mine. thanks

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                          • #14
                            Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                            Actually if you google your question you can find answers relevant to this topic. I know its something...hydroxide that is in excel that kills the algae. Excel has a combination of chemicals or maybe just two.

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                            • #15
                              Re: why is flourish excel dosed how it is?

                              Some sites that I found:


                              http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/64847-excel-experience.html

                              http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104658

                              http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/4196-glutaraldehyde.html


                              After reading most of the posts in these sites I found out that it's actually glutaraldehyde that is the key component of carbon source for the plants and for killing algae (it sterilizes and is toxic at different concentrations,etc.). There's also something about Polycycloglutaracetal...

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